Re: Scripture and Quote of the Day Bing Alabata
Re: Scripture and Quote of the Day James North
Re: Scripture and Quote of the Day Bing Alabata

From: Bing Alabata 
Subject: Re: Scripture and Quote of the Day
Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 01:35:23 +0000 (UTC)

The Biblical testimony reveals that Jesus repeatedly predicted His betrayal=
, death and resurrection. As early as three years before Calvary, Jesus poi=
ntedly foretold His resurrection in an exchange with the Jewish religious l=
eaders (John 2:18-22). In his Pentecost sermon, Peter declared that Jesus w=
as =E2=80=9Cdelivered up by the determined plan and foreknowledge of God=E2=
=80=9D (Acts 2:23). He voluntarily laid down His life mindful that it was a=
 charge He received from His Father (John 10:18).
=C2=A0
Clearly, the Lord knew that He would die and resurrect. He endured the cros=
s for =E2=80=9Cthat joy that was set before Him=E2=80=9D (Hebrews 12:2). Ev=
en His cry of dereliction, the precise first words of Psalm 22, was a detai=
led Messianic Psalm that ends in a note of triumph.=C2=A0=C2=A0Psalm 22 was=
, as it were, a divine script for His last hours.
=C2=A0
If by =E2=80=9Crisk=E2=80=9D we mean the possibility of failure in executin=
g the redemption plan, that was not in God=E2=80=99s plan (pardon the pun).=
 Risk? No.=C2=A0Pain and suffering? Literally beyond our imagination. We ha=
ve no ability to comprehend the horrendous passion of Christ. The physical =
agony was incalculable. The spiritual anguish must have been even more. Yet=
, He endured it to the glory of God for our salvation!
Blessings,
Bing Alabata

      From: Tony Zbaraschuk 
 To: sdanet@sdanet.org=20
 Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 4:58 PM
 Subject: Re: Scripture and Quote of the Day
  =20
From: "Tony Zbaraschuk" 

The Word of Edward Mugisha came to the Net, saying:
> Before Jesus died, was he sure he would resurrect or it was just a risk h=
e
> took

There are the various passages in the Gospels where he hints to the
disciples that the Son of Man is not going to stay in the grave.=C2=A0 (It
seems to me that the disciples did not clearly understand these at the
time, but of course after the event they all slapped their foreheads and
went 'duh, of course that's what he was talking about!')

But with the agony in the garden and the great cry of "My God, my God, why
have you forsaken me?" it does seem that an element of uncertainty enters
in.=C2=A0 If God is with you, of course nothing can prevail against you, no=
t
even death -- but if you believe that God has abandoned you, you may not
be very sure about anything any more.

The best way I've found to think about this: a man crossing a valley looks
down from the hilltop and sees a route across.=C2=A0 He's sure he can make =
it
across the meadows and into the hills on the other side.=C2=A0 When he gets
down into the valley and is struggling in the mud, well, he begins to
wonder if he'll ever get through.

Now, if you think that Jesus, being God, knows everything all along, then
this presents problems.=C2=A0 But it seems to me that divine omniscience wa=
s
one of the things Jesus surrendered when he became human (e.g., when his
disciples asked about the hour of his return, telling them that only the
Father knew that).


Tony Zbaraschuk

--=20
Et vocavit Deus, "Fiat lux!"



  =20
------=_Part_113860_22705539.1495762523656

From: James North 
Subject: Re: Scripture and Quote of the Day
Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 03:16:12 +0000

From: James North 

I agree, Tony.

And . . . I believe there are a couple of other things that point to a
significant amount of risk and uncertainty. Yes, Jesus spoke with apparent
assurance in predicting His resurrection, but that was before the full
weight of the worldıs sin came upon Him in the garden, when He came face
to face with the dark specter of what those sins could do to His
relationship with His Father.

I believe the first indication of this was when He said to Peter, James,
and John on entering Gethsemane, ³My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even
unto death.² If He was sure of resurrection, why would He have a deathly
sorrow? You allude to this, Tony and what follows.

There are His three struggles with ³the cup² in which He asked His Father
to remove the cup. But He is always in a surrender mode. He decides to
take the plunge no matter the cost. If He is sure of getting through this,
why would He be hesitating in facing the eveningıs experience?

His Fatherıs abandonment is what He most fears. This is what He could not
see His way through. He had only the knowledge that He is fulfilling all
that is required to ³bruise the serpentıs head.² Whether or not the effort
is successful will be determined in 3 days. But it appears that success is
not visible in the Garden and on the Cross. All He can say is, ³It is
finished.²

This is somewhat like the three Hebrews telling Nebuchadnezzar, ³Our God
is able to deliver us, but if not . . .² They could not see through the
fire.

Faith.

Jim North.

 

On 5/25/17, 12:21, "Tony Zbaraschuk"  wrote:

>From: "Tony Zbaraschuk" 
>
>The Word of Edward Mugisha came to the Net, saying:
>> Before Jesus died, was he sure he would resurrect or it was just a risk
>>he
>> took
>
>There are the various passages in the Gospels where he hints to the
>disciples that the Son of Man is not going to stay in the grave.  (It
>seems to me that the disciples did not clearly understand these at the
>time, but of course after the event they all slapped their foreheads and
>went 'duh, of course that's what he was talking about!')
>
>But with the agony in the garden and the great cry of "My God, my God, why
>have you forsaken me?" it does seem that an element of uncertainty enters
>in.  If God is with you, of course nothing can prevail against you, not
>even death -- but if you believe that God has abandoned you, you may not
>be very sure about anything any more.
>
>The best way I've found to think about this: a man crossing a valley looks
>down from the hilltop and sees a route across.  He's sure he can make it
>across the meadows and into the hills on the other side.  When he gets
>down into the valley and is struggling in the mud, well, he begins to
>wonder if he'll ever get through.
>
>Now, if you think that Jesus, being God, knows everything all along, then
>this presents problems.  But it seems to me that divine omniscience was
>one of the things Jesus surrendered when he became human (e.g., when his
>disciples asked about the hour of his return, telling them that only the
>Father knew that).
>
>
>Tony Zbaraschuk
>
>-- 
>Et vocavit Deus, "Fiat lux!"
>

From: Bing Alabata 
Subject: Re: Scripture and Quote of the Day
Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 13:36:02 +0000 (UTC)

The gospels reveal that both before and afterGethsemane, Jesus showed compl=
ete acceptance of His looming sacrifice. How thencan this be reconciled wit=
h His agonizing prayer in Gethsemane? The followingarticle provided a viabl=
e resolution for me and deepened my awe of the Cross.

=C2=A0


Did Jesus changeHis mind when He prayed for the cup to pass from Him?=C2=A0

byJ. D. Myers


=C2=A0
In Matthew 26:39, on the night before Hiscrucifixion, Jesus prayed,


"O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me: nevertheless,no=
t as I will but as you will."

=C2=A0

Though none of us can fully comprehend either the physical or thespiritual =
suffering that Jesus was about to endure, such a prayer by Jesusconfuses ma=
ny people. Up until this point, it seems that Jesus has known fullwell what=
 He would face on the cross, and went toward it willingly andresolutely.


=C2=A0
And yet now it seems that He is praying for a way around thecross. When Jes=
us prays, =E2=80=9CLet this cup pass=E2=80=9D is He asking for an alternate=
route to redemption?

=C2=A0

While some pastors and scholars just say that such a prayerreveals the full=
 humanity of Jesus, I am not sure the answer is that easy. I donot think Je=
sus changed His mind.


=C2=A0

=C2=A0
The Passover Solution=C2=A0


=C2=A0
Jesus and the apostles had just come from eating their Passovermeal, during=
 which time they would have drunk deeply from four cups of wine. Atthat tim=
e, the table would usually share one, large, communal cup. The customwas th=
at when the cup came to the place you were reclining, you must drink fromit=
 as deeply as you could, before passing it on to the next person at thetabl=
e.

=C2=A0

If the cup was emptied, it would be filled again before beingpassed on. Oft=
en, at the bottom of the cup, there were bitter dregs from thewine. If you =
were the person to empty the cup, you must drink the bitter dregsas well, b=
efore you =E2=80=9Clet this cup pass.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

So when Jesus prays, =E2=80=9CLet this cup pass from me,=E2=80=9D He is not=
saying, =E2=80=9CI don=E2=80=99t want to drink it,=E2=80=9D but is rather p=
raying, =E2=80=9CLet me drink of itas deeply as I possibly can before I pas=
s it on to humanity. Let me empty it.Let me drain it. Let me drink all of i=
t, even the bitter dregs at the bottom ofthe cup.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

Jesus was not asking God to let Him avoid the cup, but was askingto let Him=
 take on as much of it as He possibly could, and if possible, if itwas God=
=E2=80=99s will, to let Him drink every single drop, down the bitter end.

=C2=A0

This is how the statements about not doing His own will, but thewill of God=
, are to be understood (Matt 26:39, 42). Jesus was not praying tobypass the=
 cup of pain and death, but was praying to end the reign of sin anddeath on=
ce and for all, in Himself, on the cross. Jesus was praying to finishthe pl=
an, to bring it to completion. Was He looking forward to the pain andsuffer=
ing? Of course not. But nor was He shying away from it.


=C2=A0

=C2=A0
Some exegetical evidence for this view on =E2=80=9CLetthis cup pass=E2=80=
=9D=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The word used in Matthew 26:39 for =E2=80=9Cpass=E2=80=9D is=C2=A0parerchom=
ai,which can be translated in a variety of ways. It is used, for example, t=
o speakof the coming to completion or the inability of God=E2=80=99s word t=
o pass away untilall is fulfilled (cf. Matt 5:18; 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 1=
6:17; 21:33).

=C2=A0

I am one of those individuals, however, who thinks that in casessuch as the=
 Passover meal, and in His prayers, Jesus spoke in Hebrew. What wehave then=
 in the Gospels is a Greek translation from the Hebrew that Jesusspoke. The=
re are numerous references in the early church to a Gospel written inHebrew=
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